| chat.freenode.net #tryton log beginning Wed Jan 13 12:00:01 AM CET 2021 | ||
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| LordVan | hi | 06:22 |
|---|---|---|
| LordVan | anyone got an example on how to move existing fields? - I want to move shipping_date from the 2nd Tab to the first one in sale so it is next to sale_date | 06:23 |
| LordVan | (brb) | 06:25 |
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| LordVan | A question about sale.shipping_date .. is anyone aware if there is a problem if I use that for the date the customer would like the delivery for (As opposed to when it is actually delivered) ? | 07:11 |
| LordVan | (same for sale_line) | 07:12 |
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| LordVan | I have a proposal for a change to trytond.report.report execute function .. I would like to propose adding a method to get the filename (that I can then overwrite in my own report if i need to) instead of just using slugify('%s-%s' % (record.id, record.rec_name)) (report.py:159) | 10:40 |
| LordVan | this would be able to save us time as we do save the reports in the filesystem too (for archiving and because sometimes small adjustments are needed) | 10:40 |
| LordVan | I was going to put it on the tracker yet, but thought i'd ask opinions here first | 10:41 |
| LordVan | (basically put that line in a function so it is easy to overwrite similar to other _get.. functions | 10:43 |
| Timitos | LordVan: look here: https://discuss.tryton.org/t/report-name-again/2528 | 10:44 |
| LordVan | ah yes exaclty that | 10:44 |
| LordVan | you gave me the link before I had the time to search the tracker ^^ | 10:48 |
| LordVan | maybe it would be best to be able to define the PYSON in the report settings | 10:49 |
| LordVan | don'T need own function then and it is even easier than overwriting that in a custom one | 10:49 |
| LordVan | i shall re-read and join that discussion later though | 10:49 |
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| cedk | ACTION feel like disconnect again from the forum | 11:14 |
| LordVan | O.o not my fault .. i just signed up | 12:12 |
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| cedk | LordVan: no, I just decide to not care about other comments about the infrastructure | 12:23 |
| cedk | I will do whatever I want because I'm anyway the only one doing something | 12:23 |
| pokoli | cedk: for me this kind of comments just produce desmotivation | 12:24 |
| pokoli | cedk: mainly because if I propose to do something I do not get possitve feedback encouraging me to doing so | 12:25 |
| cedk | pokoli: I have seen no proposal | 12:25 |
| cedk | just comments | 12:25 |
| pokoli | cedk: Indeed there is no real proposal, just evaluating the options to see what better suits for the project | 12:25 |
| cedk | I'm tired to have this conversation over and over… | 12:26 |
| cedk | I'm thinking about the infrastructure since 2 years, it is not few comments on the moment that will change the result | 12:27 |
| pokoli | cedk: as usuall you have the final decision on the topic | 12:29 |
| LordVan | cedk, btw is wire transfer the preferred way to donate to the foundation? (i assume credit card,.. would have fees?) | 12:29 |
| pokoli | cedk: but I see any issue about evaluating other options | 12:29 |
| cedk | pokoli: it is usual because nobody else takes responsability | 12:29 |
| cedk | pokoli: OK I'm just saying that I will not take part "again" to such evaluation | 12:30 |
| pokoli | cedk: Yes, I know. And same happens with writting newsletters and news | 12:30 |
| pokoli | main problem is that there is no benefit on doing so, so nobody cares about it | 12:31 |
| cedk | may be people would care if I shutdown everything? | 12:32 |
| pokoli | LordVan: yes, wire transfer is prefered to generate less fees for the foundation | 12:32 |
| LordVan | ok because I (or rather work) want to donate some (but gotta still sort out how much,.. with the boss) | 12:33 |
| pokoli | cedk: probably but this will not benefit Tryton | 12:33 |
| LordVan | i assume subject is irrelevant? | 12:33 |
| LordVan | i mena payment ref or whatever | 12:33 |
| pokoli | cedk: Indeed i have the same feeling for Spanish/Catalan translations since some years | 12:34 |
| pokoli | cedk: nobody cares because they assume this should be done by somebody else | 12:35 |
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| cedk | Indeed I do not care doing the work, what piss me off is people comments about how *I* should do it | 12:36 |
| LordVan | yeah .. if I do volunteer work I usually want to (within limits of course) do it the way I want to.. not how someone else who does not contribute anything wants | 12:36 |
| LordVan | (not talking about anyone specific here of course just generally speaking) | 12:39 |
| pokoli | cedk: I think we should stop thinking about individuals but start thinking on the word community | 12:39 |
| pokoli | cedk: you have a big importance in it, so sometime you get the of the responsability | 12:40 |
| pokoli | cedk: main problem is that we are failing to involucrate more and more people | 12:40 |
| pokoli | cedk: sincerly I'm not sure how we should do it. Involucrating the foundation is the first step. But then discoussing lasts longers and work never completes | 12:41 |
| LordVan | pokoli, the question is: are there enough people (actively involved) to warrant that effort - and somehow make up for the extra time taken up by discussoins | 12:43 |
| LordVan | ACTION has no clue how many people are currently "active" in the tryton community | 12:43 |
| cedk | LordVan: between 3-6 | 12:44 |
| LordVan | well | 12:45 |
| cedk | I mean doing stuffs like fixing, reviewing, documenting | 12:45 |
| cedk | LordVan: but on average maybe of 1-2h per week | 12:45 |
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| LordVan | yes that is what I meant .. i mean one can also consider people who activel help others on the forum/IRC/.. to be contributing somewhat i guess | 12:46 |
| cedk | LordVan: but it does not produce a lot, maybe just adding 1 user | 12:47 |
| cedk | that's not what makes the project going on | 12:47 |
| cedk | if at least the helper would update the documentation or improve the behavior to prevent future question, but this almost never happens | 12:48 |
| cedk | and it is not a tooling issue (that's what the non-doers always answer) | 12:48 |
| LordVan | what I am doing for now is documenting my progress/.. on my blog .. if I have something that can/should go into the official docs (and is good enough quality) I will try to contribute that at least .. plus some code maybe if I am sure it is ok (and generic enough) | 12:50 |
| LordVan | btw | 12:51 |
| LordVan | something I had been thinking about .. i've seen you made a youtube video on setting up tryton on docker .. are you interested in adding an "App" (docker image for trytond,..) to univentions store? (odoo,.. are in there too) | 12:51 |
| LordVan | or do you think there is no point since tryton is not "turn-key" ? | 12:52 |
| LordVan | https://www.univention.com/products/univention-app-center/ (could get you some more users maybe) | 12:52 |
| cedk | LordVan: I'm not assuming anything about your future contribution, but I can tell you that I have heard that some many times… | 12:52 |
| LordVan | cedk, yeah it is like that iwth many volunteer projects .. :( | 12:52 |
| cedk | LordVan: I do not know univention | 12:53 |
| LordVan | I use the free corporate server for windows Domain,.. | 12:53 |
| LordVan | (setting up samba manually just became too much of a pain with samba4) | 12:54 |
| cedk | and I would say that I do not need to be involved in that question, if you think it is good go for it | 12:54 |
| pokoli | ACTION is on phone | 12:54 |
| cedk | if you want it to be official, start a proposal and probably we can allocate resource if needed | 12:54 |
| LordVan | well the thing is while tryton out-of-the-box is useful but .. how many installs are there without any customization is the question | 12:55 |
| cedk | as long as it does not add to me more work | 12:55 |
| LordVan | (most other "apps"/containers you can just install and use with some setup | 12:55 |
| LordVan | cedk, i have no use for it in the store | 12:55 |
| LordVan | it was just something i thought when i noticed odoo in it | 12:55 |
| cedk | LordVan: I know some installations without any development | 12:56 |
| LordVan | cedk, :) i guess if you had some shop or something you could use most modules as-is (but for us as producing company it is quite different) | 12:56 |
| LordVan | so mayb e.. I shall think about it (And look into what their requirements are even | 12:56 |
| LordVan | to be part of it | 12:57 |
| LordVan | If I think it is feasible I will post my findings in the forum to discuss if it is worht the effort maybe | 12:57 |
| LordVan | anyway that was just a thought on the side | 12:58 |
| LordVan | there are way more important things than that | 12:58 |
| pokoli | LordVan: what things are more important than that? Could you help solve one of them? | 13:18 |
| pokoli | I think we are failing at encourauging people to contribute | 13:18 |
| pokoli | people is lazy by default, so we do not ask them they will do less (even if we ask they won't do a lot) | 13:19 |
| pokoli | asking may be having a list of thinks to improve (like easy issues) | 13:23 |
| LordVan | pokoli, i mean getting my customizations for our tryton install done and the reports finished is hihger priority for me personally than putting it in an app store for the univention systems that i will not use myself | 13:25 |
| LordVan | pokoli, and i want to mainly ask if people are even interested in using it ;) | 13:25 |
| pokoli | LordVan: of course, your our needs are always more iportant that community ones | 13:26 |
| pokoli | this is why we do not get so much contribution, because people tend to care only for their own problems | 13:26 |
| LordVan | also i'd rather contribute with patches or documentatnion than maintaining an app image in a store | 13:27 |
| pokoli | and it's easier to implement a custom solution than developing the right solution and contributing it back to the project | 13:27 |
| LordVan | yes of course | 13:28 |
| pokoli | LordVan: feel free to contribute with whatever you prefer. If it's something interesint for the project we will accept :) | 13:28 |
| LordVan | exactly .. my customized modules with very specific fields and needs is not something that would make any sense to integrate into tryton by default | 13:29 |
| LordVan | i will post the source on my git repo for it though | 13:29 |
| LordVan | since ther eis no big secret or anything | 13:29 |
| pokoli | LordVan: I will not consider a contribution to push your customizations to public repositories | 13:31 |
| LordVan | well I for one would'Ve been glad if I found some examples like that when I was learning my way around tryton so maybe it helps someone .. and some parts of it I think are worth considering merging back but that will depend on the judgement of others ;) | 13:32 |
| pokoli | LordVan: long time ago we used to have a lot of modules into what we call TrytonSpain. This a public repository where some spanish companies shared their efforts | 13:32 |
| LordVan | yes i think i'Ve seen that | 13:33 |
| pokoli | LordVan: altought this helped increasing the visibility of tryton in spain (and some other countries also), the real improvement was when we tried to push everything to upstream | 13:33 |
| LordVan | the only thing so far that I did that is maybe worth it is my mini module to add sale_line_description back as column of the sale "table"/list .. but that is so small it is hardly worth being a seperate module so .. | 13:34 |
| pokoli | LordVan: so if you want to have something accepted as part of Tryton you should first explain your needs on the forum, then we discuss a generic discuss and this can be implemented to land on tryton | 13:34 |
| pokoli | LordVan: IIRC your small module will be included in tryton 5.9, at least a similar feature | 13:35 |
| LordVan | someone told me this used to be a column anyway but .. you can look .. it is hardly worth making an official module for it .. i integrated those 3 files int my customizations with the fields,.. now : https://github.com/LordVan/tryton-modules/tree/master/sale_list_description | 13:35 |
| pokoli | LordVan: a good contribution may be sharing some howtwos on the forum if you create them for your end users | 13:37 |
| LordVan | though it could be maybe merged with some other smaller changes/additions to sale I made (and will still make) to include a "requested_date" (customer would like the product by then) ,.. | 13:37 |
| pokoli | LordVan: for example, how to create a sale | 13:37 |
| pokoli | LordVan: there is a shipping date on the sale to indicate when the customer want's the goods | 13:38 |
| LordVan | pokoli, i wasn'T sure if that wsa the *actual* shipping date | 13:38 |
| LordVan | (ie the delivery note one) | 13:38 |
| LordVan | or if that was for expected one | 13:38 |
| LordVan | -- i did ask that earlier today but i think most were not online | 13:38 |
| LordVan | but I am currently using shipping_date as that anyway .. i was just worried if it was maybe going to mess up something once I create delivery notices or invoices | 13:39 |
| pokoli | LordVan: once you created the shipping, they will get the shipping_date as planned_date but you can replan the shippment latter | 13:39 |
| LordVan | pokoli, about howtos .. i was contemplating copy9ing some of (the more usueful posts of ) my blog stuff into forum posts https://blog.lordvan.com/blog/category/tryton/ | 13:40 |
| pokoli | LordVan: and in the sale line you will see the date from which the line is planned as shipping date (because we compute it from moves if available) | 13:40 |
| LordVan | pokoli, ok thanks that answers my question .. then I will add another date, because I do not want that date to change automatically ever | 13:41 |
| LordVan | (i want to be able to change it manually if the customer changes their mind, but no automatic workflow should touch the "customer expects it done that day" date) | 13:41 |
| pokoli | LordVan: the shipping_date of the line is readonly and updated | 13:41 |
| LordVan | yes | 13:41 |
| pokoli | LordVan: the shipping_date of the sale is never updated | 13:41 |
| LordVan | i see | 13:41 |
| pokoli | LordVan: take care there are *two* dates | 13:42 |
| LordVan | yes i noticed | 13:42 |
| LordVan | which is why for sale_line i need to add a date field | 13:42 |
| LordVan | since we often have orderes where one part needs to be delivered earlier,.. | 13:42 |
| pokoli | LordVan: if you want to change the date once shipments have been created, you should update the shipments planned_date | 13:42 |
| LordVan | so one planned shipping_date is not enough | 13:42 |
| pokoli | LordVan: normally tryton should be able to compute it for you | 13:43 |
| pokoli | LordVan: if you set the proper delivery date | 13:43 |
| pokoli | LordVan: by default tryton creates only one shipment for all the sale, but can be customize to create several shipments depending on the product lead time | 13:43 |
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| LordVan | pokoli, the thing is .. the dates need to be able to be set per sale_line ... and printed on a report when ordered .. shipments that are created later can be at varing times and also can combine items with different planned dates | 13:47 |
| LordVan | so doing this automatic here is probably not feasible | 13:47 |
| LordVan | (also i am not using production - or even product modules for most orders) | 13:49 |
| LordVan | pokoli, I would gladly contribute a module to add those customizations for sale_line to a standard module but I think the user base would be rather limited .. | 13:59 |
| LordVan | though | 13:59 |
| LordVan | maybe the planned date per sale line and also different customer references/.. per sale line (to overwrite the ones for the whole sale) might be useful for others too .. what do you think? | 14:00 |
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| pokoli | LordVan: i have the feeling that you are forcing you to follow the same workflow as before | 14:05 |
| pokoli | LordVan: because you answer that things should be done one way without giving the reasons | 14:05 |
| pokoli | LordVan: so without nowing the rational, for me this should be customizations | 14:06 |
| LordVan | partially I am forced to keep some things | 14:06 |
| LordVan | but | 14:06 |
| LordVan | the fact that our customers order parts that are for like 3 internal projects of theirs and therefore have different references as one order is not somethin i can change | 14:06 |
| LordVan | or need different delivery times for different parts | 14:07 |
| LordVan | when you make a lot of prototypes and small amounts of same parts | 14:07 |
| LordVan | and with short lead times | 14:08 |
| LordVan | planning production ahead is nearly impossible | 14:08 |
| LordVan | the order of which project is drawn/programmed/cut on the laser/bent/.. changes sometimes hourly | 14:08 |
| pokoli | LordVan: you have two options here: | 14:16 |
| pokoli | 1. Create one sale line for each reference/delivery date | 14:17 |
| pokoli | 2. Customize the code to suit your needs | 14:17 |
| pokoli | 1. sale line -> sale order | 14:17 |
| LordVan | I do not understand what you mean with the first one, since I said that i might just have different customer references/planned dates per sale line | 14:18 |
| LordVan | but I have to add extra fields as those are not present from what I could see | 14:18 |
| LordVan | so i am doing 1 and adding the extra fields with 2 | 14:19 |
| pokoli | LordVan: you told me that your customers creates an order for each project with a reference and a shipping date | 14:19 |
| pokoli | LordVan: you can encode this a single sale for each project, or group all projects into a single sale | 14:20 |
| LordVan | maybe i was not clear .. we get 1 customer order that contains multiple sale_line entries where some might have varying customer references/planned dates | 14:20 |
| pokoli | LordVan: the first will work without customization, the latter will force you to add fields and customization | 14:20 |
| LordVan | well I am going for the second option as I already have to add customized fields for sale_line anyway | 14:20 |
| pokoli | LordVan: and which is the issue with splitting them on Tryton? | 14:20 |
| LordVan | I would need to still somehow know at one glance which go together for one customer order | 14:21 |
| LordVan | and also for invoicing they need to be grouped back together | 14:21 |
| LordVan | (or should be at least according to .. management requirement) | 14:21 |
| LordVan | though I am trying to talk them out of this one anyway | 14:21 |
| LordVan | i'D prefer to just split it too of course | 14:22 |
| LordVan | but then there'd be even more "paperwork" | 14:22 |
| pokoli | LordVan: no paperwork if you use the grouping modules | 14:22 |
| pokoli | LordVan: shipments and invoices can be grouped if requested | 14:22 |
| LordVan | yes but can i group sales? | 14:23 |
| LordVan | from a "logical" perspective | 14:23 |
| LordVan | the customer calls up asks is my order from XY done and ready for pickup | 14:23 |
| LordVan | i need to be able to look it up and see that goes together before shipmend and invoicing | 14:23 |
| LordVan | so | 14:23 |
| LordVan | i'd need not just invoice groups but also sale group | 14:24 |
| LordVan | but i think customizing sale_line might be easier and more straightforward tbh | 14:24 |
| LordVan | [[I already managed to get rid of some old - bad- practices by saying it would take me X hours longer and thus cost more .. but i can only influence "management" so much]] | 14:25 |
| pokoli | LordVan: you should look at shipments to see if it's ready for pick up | 14:26 |
| LordVan | pokoli, i will do taht still i haven't gotten that far yet | 14:55 |
| LordVan | to look into details of that | 14:55 |
| LordVan | I am (purposely) introducing tryton "in stages" | 14:56 |
| LordVan | first we manage parties and sales (to generate internal project documentation automatically) next step is going to be delivery notes and then invoices | 14:58 |
| pokoli | LordVan: then probably it's better to fully understand how tryton works before creating customizations | 15:19 |
| pokoli | LordVan: as sales creates delivery notes and invoices you should link them | 15:19 |
| cedk | not necessary, you can prevent sale to create any shipment or invoice by using manual methods | 15:22 |
| pokoli | cedk: but if they want to manage what is ready to delivery they should use shipments | 15:23 |
| pokoli | cedk: otherwise if you do not link it is not possible to know what is ready to ship and what is shipped | 15:25 |
| pokoli | indeed we are starting a project where they enter the sales when the goods has been shipped to properly generate grouped invoices | 15:25 |
| pokoli | and they set the shipment_method to manual to not generate shipments (only invoices) | 15:26 |
| pokoli | and latter we will swithc the methods to properly generate both documents | 15:26 |
| pokoli | This may help, but setting both invoice and shipment method as manual it's only usefull to register quotations | 15:27 |
| samtc | hi! | 15:31 |
| pokoli | samtc: hello, welcome to the tryton IRC channel!!! | 15:34 |
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| samtc | Let say I want to build a report (like a credit report). To get the final report, I need to gather information from 4 differents data sources. Some need manual review/approval. Then, we build the report and ship it (email) to the client. I would like to implement that using the production module. | 16:46 |
| pokoli | samtc: which data sources? tryton models or external ones? | 17:10 |
| samtc | external | 17:10 |
| pokoli | samtc: if they need to be reviewed/approved and are tryton models you can design a workflow to track it's status | 17:11 |
| samtc | but I don't want tryton to handle the data, just make sure the production is done right | 17:11 |
| pokoli | samtc: the production module is used to transform materials | 17:11 |
| samtc | ok | 17:11 |
| pokoli | samtc: then you will need to store soway in tryton the state of the external data sources | 17:11 |
| pokoli | samtc: and customize the production model to check everything is done right in the required steps | 17:12 |
| pokoli | samtc: so for example if you need to ensure something is done before startig you should check it on the run transition and raise an error in tryton if something is missing | 17:13 |
| pokoli | ACTION leaves for today, will read the conversation tomorrow | 17:13 |
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| samtc | thanks! | 17:16 |
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