| chat.freenode.net #tryton log beginning Fri May 18 00:00:01 CEST 2018 | ||
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| jmpoure | Hello everyone. I am Jean-Michel Pouré and I am willing to contribute some documentation to Tryton, starting with installation issues. I propose to ask questions on the mailing list and then submit and discuss patches to documentation. | 09:02 |
|---|---|---|
| pokoli | jmpoure: Hi, Sergi here (I replied you on mailing list) | 09:03 |
| pokoli | jmpoure: feel free to ask the questions here first ass you will probably have faster responses | 09:03 |
| jmpoure | Thanks. I will be starting with trytond/INSTALL | 09:08 |
| jmpoure | See doc/topics/install.rst | 09:08 |
| jmpoure | can doc/topic/install.rst be compiled using a command line or is this the end-user documentation? | 09:09 |
| cedk | jmpoure: you should check the discussion on https://bugs.tryton.org/issue7397 | 09:09 |
| cedk | jmpoure: and there is a Makefile in trytond/doc | 09:10 |
| jmpoure | Thanks, I registered Tryton issue tracker. | 09:12 |
| jmpoure | Sorry I am quite unfamiliar with Python documentation. In the doc tree, what make command should I run to display all documentation ? make help shows: | 09:23 |
| jmpoure | Please use `make <target>' where <target> is one of | 09:23 |
| jmpoure | html to make standalone HTML files | 09:24 |
| jmpoure | When typing make html nothing happens. | 09:24 |
| jmpoure | Sorry it is in _build/html | 09:25 |
| jmpoure | This is quite complex. | 09:25 |
| cedk | jmpoure: this is sphinx: http://www.sphinx-doc.org/en/stable/# | 09:26 |
| semarie | the last line on the console after issuing the "make html" command should be: "Build finished. The HTML pages are in _build/html." | 09:26 |
| jmpoure | Okay, this is what need to be written in INSTALL not simply "See doc/topics/install.rst". | 09:27 |
| jmpoure | I can read Sphinx HTML documentation now, thanks. Is there a default way to read Sphinx documentation from command line? | 09:29 |
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| nicoe | jmpoure: I'm afraid I don't understand the question but you can use lynx or firefox | 09:31 |
| jmpoure | OK. This is written in readme: sphinx-build doc/ doc/ | 09:33 |
| jmpoure | in fact sphinx-build doc/ doc/ fails as source and destination forlders are not the same. On the converse sphinx-build doc/ html/ works and creates a seperate html folder. | 09:35 |
| Timitos | why are you not using "make html"? | 09:37 |
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| jmpoure | because it is written in trytond/INSTALL | 09:38 |
| jmpoure | Sorry Trytond/README | 09:39 |
| jmpoure | I am trying to start writting documentation somewhere :) | 09:39 |
| jmpoure | One issue with Tryton is that it has too many information entry points. A newcomer like me is lost and does not know where to start, even reading documentation is not straightforward. | 09:40 |
| Timitos | i agree. i think it would be good to first have a plan how to change that and to discuss the plan first and after there is an agreement about how to improve the structure of the documentation to start changing it | 09:41 |
| cedk | Timitos: I do not think it will work to have a big plan | 09:42 |
| cedk | documentation is created not differently than code | 09:43 |
| cedk | and I think we should improve documentation like we do for the code with small steps | 09:43 |
| Timitos | cedk: but otherwise i see the risk that jmpoure proposes you something and put a load of work in it and in the review you propose a completely different way to solve it. i want to prevent frustration | 09:44 |
| cedk | and I find https://bugs.tryton.org/issue7397 is a good starting point | 09:44 |
| Timitos | IMHO it is always better to have a plan than to start without one | 09:44 |
| cedk | a small plan that can be explained in few sentence in the bug tracker is OK | 09:45 |
| cedk | but a complete strategic plan for Tryton communication will never be achived | 09:45 |
| cedk | so I agree with jmpoure that the README and doc folders are duplicate and https://bugs.tryton.org/issue7397 is about that | 09:46 |
| jmpoure | Let's go simple the way it is done in free software projets. If it is simple to explain, then it is simple to fix and the users understand immediately. | 09:48 |
| jmpoure | I propose to point INSTALL to README writting something like : | 09:49 |
| jmpoure | (this is just a very quick proposal for discussion). | 09:49 |
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| jmpoure | OK. Readme points to INSTALL. | 09:51 |
| cedk | I think as I said in https://bugs.tryton.org/issue7397, it is even better to remove INSTALL and README, and use only doc/ | 09:52 |
| jmpoure | It is also my opinion. There are too many information entry points and it must be a nightmare to handle. | 09:52 |
| jmpoure | INSTALL should point to README. | 09:53 |
| cedk | they may be some part of README's that should be moved into doc/index.rst probably | 09:53 |
| cedk | jmpoure: what do you mean by "point"? | 09:53 |
| jmpoure | README should explain how to make the HTML documentation. | 09:53 |
| jmpoure | I mean a simple phrase like "Please read the file README which explains how to view Tryton complete documentation". | 09:54 |
| cedk | jmpoure: I prefer to not have the file at all | 09:54 |
| jmpoure | OK, but you should explain at least to people like me how to make the documentation. What file is displayed by default by github ? | 09:55 |
| cedk | I do not think building the doc is a very important task, people will read it on doc.tryton.org | 09:55 |
| cedk | jmpoure: github should not be our principal concern, it is just a code mirror | 09:57 |
| jmpoure | github is a concern because people connect to github like people use Google nowadays. | 09:59 |
| jmpoure | github shows README. So INSTALL can be safely removed. | 09:59 |
| jmpoure | i will write and new README and come back with a nice solution. Just give me some time. | 10:00 |
| cedk | jmpoure: I think README should be removed because it duplicates information with doc/ | 10:01 |
| jmpoure | You are right, but doc is a subfolder and people to have to look in subfolders unless it is requested from README. | 10:02 |
| jmpoure | Every free software project has a README file, so it does sound normal for Tryton to have a very simple README file. | 10:02 |
| jmpoure | We are more of the same opinion. | 10:03 |
| jmpoure | You advice people to read the documentation online or in the doc folder. | 10:03 |
| jmpoure | I am of the same opinion. | 10:03 |
| jmpoure | But the readme should inform people where to find documentation: online or in the doc folder. | 10:04 |
| nicoe | Can github display something else than the README file ? | 10:04 |
| jmpoure | I don't know. | 10:04 |
| nicoe | https://help.github.com/articles/about-readmes/ | 10:05 |
| nicoe | "If you put your README file in your repository's root, docs, or hidden .github directory, GitHub will recognize and automatically surface your README to repository visitors." | 10:05 |
| jmpoure | yes, but people downloading Tryton also need a simple README in the main directory. | 10:07 |
| jmpoure | Personnaly, I like github guidelines, why not stick to them. | 10:08 |
| cedk | jmpoure: why? if there is a doc folder | 10:08 |
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| jmpoure | \/doc inside trytond | 10:09 |
| cedk | jmpoure: I'm talking about all repositories | 10:09 |
| jmpoure | I understand. | 10:09 |
| cedk | for me, trytond should be treated like others repositories | 10:11 |
| jmpoure | OK, but I was only speaking of trytond at first. | 10:11 |
| cedk | nicoe: it will be better if github would also use doc/index.rst | 10:11 |
| nicoe | while I agree that github is a major factor when searching for softwares, the README file don't have to be in the root of the repo to be displayed | 10:12 |
| nicoe | cedk: yes but they don't | 10:12 |
| cedk | I do not care about where the README is, I do care about duplicate information between doc/ and README | 10:13 |
| jmpoure | Let's agree there should be no duplicates. | 10:13 |
| cedk | also for me, the description on PyPI is more important than the Github mirror | 10:14 |
| jmpoure | The README should only contain a very general presentation and then point to documentation on website or in the \doc folder. That's it. | 10:14 |
| jmpoure | So we all agree, give me 30 minutes to write a proposal. | 10:14 |
| cedk | and if we can not find a working solution it is still possible to remove tryton mirror from github | 10:15 |
| jmpoure | of README file. | 10:15 |
| jmpoure | This is a separate issue. Are you jocking :) | 10:15 |
| jmpoure | One issue I found was that it was easier to use hgnested. | 10:16 |
| jmpoure | I would have preferred a single repository with all modules available. | 10:16 |
| jmpoure | This is another issue, let's discuss later with github. | 10:16 |
| cedk | jmpoure: but we already have a general README text in all modules which as it is general is not helpful | 10:16 |
| jmpoure | What do you mean ? | 10:17 |
| cedk | jmpoure: generic/general does not provide information | 10:17 |
| cedk | developers care more about the doc/ folders than the README which is almost never updated | 10:18 |
| cedk | so I prefer to have only one file which is updated | 10:18 |
| jmpoure | OK. | 10:19 |
| cedk | also having a README that just says look at the doc/, I find this inderection quite annoying | 10:19 |
| cedk | I got such case for some software | 10:20 |
| jmpoure | Let me have a look. | 10:20 |
| cedk | and I would prefered to not have a README file because I would have looked directly to the doc folder | 10:20 |
| jmpoure | OK. If you look directly on the \/doc folder, what file to you open first? | 10:21 |
| jmpoure | Personnaly, I had to read MAKEFILE to understand where to start in \/doc folder. | 10:22 |
| jmpoure | and then I typped "make help" which is complicated. | 10:22 |
| jmpoure | If you preffer to have only online documentation, this is also a choice. Just write in the README that all Tryton documentation is online at doc.tryton.org | 10:25 |
| cedk | jmpoure: index.rst | 10:25 |
| jmpoure | cat index.rst is written in some wiki syntax. It is not suitable from command line. | 10:26 |
| jmpoure | Example: | 10:26 |
| jmpoure | * Looking for specific information? Try the :ref:`genindex`, :ref:`modindex`. | 10:27 |
| cedk | indeed I'm wondering if we should keep the sphinx manchinery in the repositories only trytond and tryton has one | 10:27 |
| pokoli | jmpoure: rst is for restructured text which is what you cal wiki syntax :) | 10:27 |
| pokoli | cedk: but other respositories are nested inside the trytond docs on doc.tryton.org | 10:27 |
| jmpoure | OK. | 10:27 |
| cedk | pokoli: doc.tryton.org is built from http://hg.tryton.org/doc.tryton.org/ | 10:28 |
| jmpoure | Ahhhh! | 10:28 |
| cedk | indeed it will be good to have an index.rst which minimal rst command so it can be used as README on github and as description on PYPI | 10:29 |
| jmpoure | This is becoming too complicated for me. Make it simple and point the README to http://doc.tryton.org | 10:31 |
| jmpoure | The main focus is to fix the documentation and remove duplicates. | 10:31 |
| cedk | jmpoure: but this may point to the wrong version of the documentation | 10:31 |
| cedk | we could use include directive to separate them: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/ref/rst/directives.html#including-an-external-document-fragment | 10:32 |
| cedk | maybe we could keep the README and indeed include it in the doc/index.rst | 10:33 |
| jmpoure | Sounds nice. | 10:34 |
| jmpoure | On my side, I would like to give more information about the installation process and I will focus on that. | 10:36 |
| jmpoure | Please go ahead with simplications and remove files if needed. | 10:36 |
| jmpoure | Talk to you soon. | 10:36 |
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| andrespoliti | is is possible to modify a translation of an existing module with an extension? | 14:57 |
| andrespoliti | i mean modify a translation in a module from another module | 14:57 |
| cedk | andrespoliti: http://doc.tryton.org/4.8/trytond/doc/topics/translation.html#override-translations | 15:02 |
| andrespoliti | thanks | 15:04 |
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