| chat.freenode.net #tryton log beginning Thu Dec 13 00:00:01 CET 2012 | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:23 <sisalp> hello | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:24 <sisalp> I'd like to use thems for the gtk client and set the them from the server | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:25 <sisalp> the idea is to differentiate the them of the client on different servers used simultaneously | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:25 <sisalp> so mistakes can be avoided. | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:25 <sisalp> is it a silly idea ? | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:26 <yangoon1> sisalp: rather difficult, if possible at all | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:26 <yangoon1> sisalp: there is the status line | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:26 <yangoon1> sisalp: isn't it enough? | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:27 <sisalp> yangoon1: it should, but in practice, I'll be the first trapped | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:29 <sisalp> them could be chosen at client level with connection parameters or in the preferences if the server cannot know which thems are available on the desktop | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:29 <sisalp> s/them/they/ | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:29 <yangoon> sisalp: you could customize the client to show the server more prominently | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:30 <yangoon> sisalp: but themes are clearly a property of the gtk installation of the client machine | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:31 <sisalp> yangoon: a color is better than a text you must read and understand every time | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:31 <sisalp> I thought "them", but the requirement is a colored indicator | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:32 <sisalp> "red for our production server, grey for tryton demo project ... | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:32 <yangoon> sisalp: perhaps there could be shown a random color per connection, but I doubt it will find the approval of cedk | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:34 <sisalp> for cedk, we could rephrase it as "show a custom logo somewhere," ;-) | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:34 <sisalp> I don't like the random assignment either | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:35 <sisalp> the point it to decide if it is useful or not I think | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:37 <sisalp> any support from others ? please ;-) | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:37 <bechamel`> sisalp: changing the status color is far easier than the gtk theme | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:37 <yangoon> :) | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:38 <bechamel`> and IMO not a bad idea, maybe this should be a good idea for a plugin | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:38 <bechamel`> s/should/would/ | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:39 <sisalp> bechamel`: yes it could be the background color of the status area | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:39 <sisalp> the point is that it is a perser request, not a per database one | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:39 <sisalp> per server | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:40 <sisalp> I tell users : when you need to experiment, copy your database to anoter server first | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:40 <sisalp> then don't play on the wrong server ! | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:41 <bechamel`> sisalp: or per server-db couple | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:42 <sisalp> To reduce risk, I usually recommand a single database when production data are involved, but others may work differently indeed | ||
| 2012-12-13 12:43 <bechamel`> (afk) | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:28 <jbwiv> can someone tell me why one might choose tryton instead of openerp? I saw a recent discussion on HN where sharoon thomas tore apart openerp (http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=sharoonthomas) but didn't really explain why tryton was any better. Plus, openerp has a web client which is pretty important to us. Any advice/insight you can offer would be appreciated | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:40 <rmu> jbwiv: one thing should nail it for everyone that thinks about using openerp for accounting: they seem to be (still!) using float for monetary calculations | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:42 <jbwiv> rmu: what should they be using? | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:42 <jbwiv> ah, never mind. I understand what you're saying | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:44 <jbwiv> rmu: in practive, does that become a problem? and if so, does tryton do it differently? | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:48 <rmu> jbwiv: i would not trust any software that uses floating point for this. many numbers you can't be expressed exactly in floating point, and this will hurt you | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:48 <cedk> jbwiv: it is a problem if you want to compute correctly | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:49 <cedk> jbwiv: any way, it is a long list to enumerate all the differences | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:50 <cedk> jbwiv: but the main difference is that Tryton tries to build a generic framework for business application when OpenERP tries to sale Saas to SME | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:51 <cedk> jbwiv: for the web client, the community founded B2CK to write one | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:51 <cedk> jbwiv: http://hg.tryton.org/sandbox/sao/ | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:53 <cedk> jbwiv: but perhaps, you should explain what you are expecting then we could give you advise if Tryton is right for you or not | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:54 <cedk> jbwiv: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Tryton_and_Open_ERP | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:54 <jbwiv> cedk: sorry...my notifications aren't working correctly for some reason | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:54 <jbwiv> cedk: i have an in-house ERP I'd like to find a replacement for...preferably one which isn't COTS | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:55 <jbwiv> looking at openerp, adempiere, and openbravo...openerp seemed to be most open and I like the fact that it's in python | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:55 <jbwiv> it'd need to support about 1000 users | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:55 <jbwiv> current system is a legacy system. We own it | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:55 <cedk> jbwiv: what are you managing with it? | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:55 <jbwiv> internal staff | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:56 <jbwiv> it's painful to maintain and extend | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:56 <jbwiv> and it's old | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:57 <cedk> jbwiv: ok but what are your requirements? | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:58 <jbwiv> cedk: accounting, purchasing/inventory/receiving (basically warehouse mgmt), project management (we'll have to customize this, we do it differently), HR/Payroll, Tool tracking (yet another custom thing we'll likely have to do) | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:58 <jbwiv> our current system does quite a lot I guess | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:59 <jbwiv> ultimately, it'd be nice to also have mrp, but that's not a day one requirement | ||
| 2012-12-13 18:59 <cedk> jbwiv: Tryton has modules on all that subject | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:00 <cedk> jbwiv: but if your process are a little bit complex, customisation will be required | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:00 <cedk> jbwiv: but that's not an issue in Tryton as we try to be a modular/flexible as possible | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:00 <jbwiv> cedk, so does tryton "right" all of openerp's "wrongs"? | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:00 <cedk> jbwiv: which is not the case of OpenERP | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:01 <cedk> jbwiv: all I found wrong in OpenERP, I fix it in Tryton | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:01 <jbwiv> cedk, be back in a few, I have a visitor. still, I'm interested in continuing the discussion | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:01 <cedk> jbwiv: ok | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:18 <rmu> just found this http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4905806 | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:20 <cedk> rmu: we can not claim too much that our ORM is much better (base on same basis) | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:20 <cedk> rmu: but the python-sql project has the goal to improve that | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:25 <rmu> cedk: at least most of the spaghetti is gone | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:25 <cedk> rmu: yes of course | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:26 <cedk> rmu: but I'm still not very proude of ModelSQL.{read,search,write,delete} | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:26 <cedk> and at least we have a lot of unittest on this part | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:30 <rmu> what will be substantially different with python-sql? | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:31 <cedk> rmu: the SQL string construction | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:31 <cedk> rmu: instead of using str concatination, it will use Python object | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:31 <jbwiv> alright...back. | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:32 <cedk> rmu: using that will allow to have better composition of SQL queries | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:32 <jbwiv> so what does one give up by using openerp over tryton? | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:32 <jbwiv> woops | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:32 <jbwiv> I mean tryton over openerp | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:32 <cedk> rmu: like function field returning SQL clause instead of (id, in, [...]) | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:32 <rmu> cedk: would it be possible to manipulate the sql in "abstract" python-sql form from modules? | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:33 <cedk> rmu: yes it is the goal | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:33 <cedk> jbwiv: the aggressive marketing :-) | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:34 <cedk> jbwiv: Tryton has less modules but it is working modules | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:34 <jbwiv> cedk, really? that's all? I suppose a web interface too for now | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:35 <cedk> jbwiv: for now, yes but our GTK client is much usable than the web client of OpenERP | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:35 <cedk> jbwiv: you can use it with keyboard only | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:35 <jbwiv> cedk, if you didn't have tryton to choose, what would you then use? OpenERP or one of the others? | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:35 <jbwiv> cedk, that's nice...our current erp is terminal based, so our users have keys memorized. going to point and click will be a challenge for them | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:35 <cedk> jbwiv: for information, I worked at OpenERP (when it was named TinyERP) | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:36 <cedk> jbwiv: so I worked on OpenERP | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:36 <jbwiv> cedk, cool. are there any positives you'd say for openerp? | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:37 <jbwiv> seems like sharoon has an agenda of some sort. he's very negative in tweets and on the HN thread | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:37 <cedk> jbwiv: I'm still the 9th contributor to OpenERP: https://www.ohloh.net/p/openerp/contributors?query=&sort=commits | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:37 <jbwiv> I'm looking for a more objective view...someone who can share the benefits and drawbacks | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:37 <jbwiv> but I won't get this from a partner of course ;-) | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:38 <jbwiv> cedk: nince...so you know it well ;) | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:38 <cedk> jbwiv: sharoon is just upset by OpenERP SA because he trust in the marketing at first and got a lot of trouble when installing OpenERP for his customers | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:38 <cedk> jbwiv: then he switches to Tryton and succeed to solve the problems | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:39 <jbwiv> interesting...did he do any sort of write up on his troubles? | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:39 <jbwiv> wonder if I could buy an hour or two of his time to discuss | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:39 <cedk> jbwiv: he comes here from time to time | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:40 <jbwiv> cedk, is tryton considered an out of the box solution or is it more a framework for building business apps? | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:40 <cedk> jbwiv: other stuff, you win with Tryton: free migration from releases | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:41 <cedk> jbwiv: depends of your requirements | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:41 <Telesight> jbwiv: OpenERP has some "empty" modules. | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:41 <cedk> jbwiv: there are people using it out of the box for SME | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:41 <jbwiv> Telesight, empty? | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:41 <jbwiv> cedk, sorry...SME? | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:41 <cedk> jbwiv: Small Medium Entreprise | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:41 <cedk> jbwiv: SME=SMB | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:41 <Telesight> Yes only a name but not real functionality .. | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:42 <cedk> jbwiv: there are people using it to build their own solution | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:42 <cedk> jbwiv: without using any Tryton modules | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:42 <jbwiv> cedk, I see. so if I wanted to weigh a possible implementation of tryton, who would I approach? are their "partners"? | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:42 <cedk> jbwiv: there is also some guys connecting Tryton with some kind of sensors to retrieve data | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:43 <cedk> jbwiv: http://www.tryton.org/services.html | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:43 <cedk> jbwiv: a list of companies providing services on Tryton | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:43 <cedk> jbwiv: I'm from B2CK | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:43 <jbwiv> alas...no one in the US :-/ | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:43 <cedk> jbwiv: there is also GNUHealth http://health.gnu.org/ | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:44 <cedk> jbwiv: a hospital management system | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:44 <Telesight> jbwiv: And showstopper bugs are only repeared when you pay for it, too risky for small businesses that have not a lot of money. | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:45 <jbwiv> I've heard that one knock against openerp is that it doesn't do American-style accounting well and won't make sense to most US accountants, although on that HN thread I think one of their directors said this wasn't the case. What about tryton? is it too european for US companies? | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:45 <cedk> jbwiv: not yet, but OpenLabs has office in Miami | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:45 <jbwiv> Telesight, we're not a wealthy company by any means, but we're not necessarily small either. Medium-size...we have around 2.5K employees total | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:47 <cedk> jbwiv: don't know exactly what are the critics about US accounting practice | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:48 <cedk> jbwiv: for me, the base of the account module of Tryton is quite simple and generic | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:48 <Telesight> jbwiv: No I understand. But small ones do go with OSS because the lack of expensive licenses othe ERP's have. | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:48 <jbwiv> Telesight, yeah, and me, I'm a big open source guy, so although we could probably afford an COTS, I don't want one. I like having the source ;-) | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:49 <jbwiv> cedk: see this comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4905640 | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:49 <cedk> jbwiv: we have now a Foundation to protect Tryton as OSS | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:49 <Telesight> Now we are talking ;-) | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:50 <jbwiv> one place I've found openerp lacking is the documentation. is tryton better in this regards? OpenERP's was completely out of date when I was setting it up...very frustrating | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:51 <cedk> jbwiv: about reports, I think Tryton has quite generic report but easy to customize | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:52 <cedk> jbwiv: about taxes, I don't know. The davidbrent doesn't explain what doesn't work | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:52 <cedk> jbwiv: but anyway, we have at least the same functionnality as OE | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:53 <cedk> jbwiv: about doc, this is not our best point :-) But at least we keep doc in the same repo as the code and update it when code change | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:53 <Telesight> jbwiv: OSS and documentation :-( | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:53 <cedk> jbwiv: so it is normally accurate | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:53 <jbwiv> cedk, ok, cool. thanks guys. I have a lot of thinking/exploring to do | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:53 <Telesight> We made ones a start but we have to update it: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wPjdd965wy0_WlQCu8nCw1zl9GJ9xa2jQHQflpiBx98/edit?authkey=CLK6q9gK&authkey=CLK6q9gK | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:54 <cedk> jbwiv: but code is readable at least compare to OE :-) | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:54 <Telesight> THe documentation must preferably doen with Sphinx. | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:57 <jbwiv> ok, thanks to both of you. I appreciate it | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:57 <Telesight> jbwiv: Hopefully you will not have a sleepless night ... | ||
| 2012-12-13 19:58 <jbwiv> Telesight, more like a sleepless series of months. One does not take switching 1K users to another ERP lightly :-/ | ||
| 2012-12-13 20:01 <Telesight> jbwiv: Well good luck! | ||
| 2012-12-13 20:03 <jbwiv> Telesight, thanks! | ||
| 2012-12-13 20:17 <rmu> cedk: is it somehow possible to have things like production orders, deliveries etc.. show up in the calendar? | ||
| 2012-12-13 20:17 <rmu> without copy/pasting most of calendar_todo? | ||
| 2012-12-13 20:23 <cedk> rmu: I think it should be solve with the calendar view antoinne did during GSoC | ||
| 2012-12-13 20:25 <rmu> hmm. i would like it to show up in caldav for various reasons | ||
| 2012-12-13 20:25 <cedk> rmu: then you have to sync it | ||
| 2012-12-13 20:26 <rmu> create calendar.todo-records? | ||
| 2012-12-13 20:26 <cedk> rmu: why not | ||
| 2012-12-13 20:27 <cedk> rmu: I think it could be a generic module to sync any Model to calendar | ||
| 2012-12-13 20:27 <rmu> will probably do it... but in ideal world, i would inherit some calender-thingy, implement some mapping/getters/... and be set ;) | ||
| 2012-12-13 20:29 <cedk> rmu: don't think it is the right way because one record could be put in different calendars | ||
| 2012-12-13 20:31 <cedk> rmu: I'm thinking about something similar to triggers | ||
| 2012-12-13 20:31 <rmu> i'm thinking of something like a "view" | ||
| 2012-12-13 20:34 <cedk> rmu: then it will not be generic | ||
| 2012-12-13 20:59 <rmu> cedk: the "view" would be a customization | ||
| 2012-12-13 21:27 <rmu> hmm. calendar and calendar_todo already contain much "duplicated" code... | ||
| 2012-12-13 21:27 <rmu> is there really any substantial difference between "todo" and "event"? | ||
| 2012-12-13 23:03 <sisalp> hello do you know about a shop example of Nereide ? | ||
| 2012-12-13 23:04 <cedk> sisalp: should ask to sharoon | ||
| 2012-12-13 23:05 <sisalp> cedk: yes, sharron is not in, maybe some one noted that when he presented at TUL | ||
| 2012-12-13 23:06 <cedk> sisalp: he is always a little bit secret with such information :-) | ||
| 2012-12-13 23:06 <sisalp> I'll ask privatly then | ||
| 2012-12-13 23:06 <cedk> sisalp: nothing on the website? | ||
| 2012-12-13 23:07 <sisalp> I'm too respectful of my customers'privacy | ||
| 2012-12-13 23:07 <cedk> sisalp: I mean on the website of nereid | ||
| 2012-12-13 23:11 <sisalp> cedk: didn't find this site | ||
| 2012-12-13 23:13 <sisalp> nereide and tryton : the picture : http://www.stoa.org/diotima/nereids/icons/141_1.JPG | ||
| 2012-12-13 23:16 <sisalp> http://nereid.openlabs.co.in/ |
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