| chat.freenode.net #tryton log beginning Sun Feb 21 00:00:02 CET 2010 | ||
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| 2010-02-21 22:30 <Payne> hi , anyone home. I just became aware of tryton and I had a question about possibly using tryton for a Point of sale project | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:44 <petrus> Payne: what do you exactly mean by "point of sale project"? | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:44 <Payne> hi | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:44 <Payne> I have a project | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:44 <Payne> in an industrial setting | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:45 <Payne> that they need a point of sale terminal | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:45 <Payne> that backends to the erp system | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:45 <Payne> to input some data | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:45 <Payne> to update parts usage at a remte site | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:45 <Payne> remote site | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:46 <Payne> tryton looks as a good framework to build the solution | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:46 <Payne> however | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:46 <Payne> I cannot assume continuous network access between the client and server | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:47 <Payne> thus some kind of disconnected mode would be necessary | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:48 <Payne> does that clarify things? | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:48 <petrus> Payne: yes | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:49 <Payne> I think a disconnected mode would be generally useful as well | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:49 <Payne> so I am willing to work on it | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:49 <Payne> maybe a solution like syncml | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:50 <Payne> I know that openerp has a synchro module | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:50 <Payne> But as I am relatively new to tryton | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:50 <Payne> I thought I would ask here and on the mailing list list | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:51 <vengfulsquirrel> I don't think such a thing exists but people have talked a few times about working on some point of sale solution. | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:52 <Payne> I think it is critical | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:52 <Payne> to the usability of the project | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:52 <vengfulsquirrel> I wrote a wizard in tryton that kind of works like point of sale but as its in the client it requires an active internet connection. | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:52 <petrus> Payne: I am new here too, just in the evaluating phase | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:52 <Payne> same here | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:52 <Payne> I actually have an active openerp project | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:53 <Payne> but I think tryton seems more focused | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:53 <Payne> than openerp | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:53 <petrus> Payne: what I have seen so far a general disconnect mode would be difficult | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:54 <petrus> Payne: however for you problem, you client may batch up the transactions loacally | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:54 <Payne> using what mechanism? | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:54 <petrus> Payne: than it can push them up when connected | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:55 <Payne> from I see | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:55 <petrus> Payne: I guess you would need some kind of local DB, not necessarily postgres | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:55 <Payne> yes | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:56 <Payne> It can be done | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:56 <Payne> but it would be better to have it part of tryton | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:56 <vengfulsquirrel> I think creating an entirely separate interface would be the difficult part. | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:57 <Payne> actually an pos system for amid to large company should support some type of disconnected mode | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:57 <vengfulsquirrel> What kind of features would the POS support while disconnected? | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:57 <Payne> just the ability to function | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:58 <Payne> with the current data | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:58 <Payne> until it reconnected | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:58 <Payne> syncml | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:58 <Payne> was designed for this | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:59 <Payne> and I think some form of syncml integration in tryton | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:59 <vengfulsquirrel> All functions cannot be supported if the database integrity is to be maintained. | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:59 <Payne> well | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:59 <petrus> Payne: well you would face very funny roll-back problems from time to time | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:59 <Payne> yes | ||
| 2010-02-21 22:59 <Payne> syncml supports conflict resolution | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:00 <Payne> although sometimes | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:00 <Payne> there may be the need for manual intervention | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:12 <cedk> petrus: http://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue1420 | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:13 <cedk> petrus: this should improve the install of dev source | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:14 <petrus> cedk: hello, yes -- thanks. | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:15 <cedk> Payne: you could have a look at the sqlite backend | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:15 <cedk> Payne: we use it for neso | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:16 <cedk> Payne: I think it could be a good way to create async POS | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:16 <Payne> yes | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:16 <Payne> the issue is the sync code on the tryton backend | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:16 <petrus> cedk: by the way, I have just created a nice dependency graph for trytond modules and a dependency list whit topological order to help module installs and/or distro package maintenance | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:17 <Payne> I think syncml using a python library | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:17 <Payne> would be ideal | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:18 <Payne> the issue is proper integration into tryton so it is not a hack | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:19 <cedk> Payne: I don't know syncml but it seems complicate | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:19 <cedk> Payne: what do you want to sync? | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:19 <petrus> cedk: they are based on the __tryton__.py files, but the the dependency lists may be longer since they are the transitive closures | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:20 <Payne> well, I am looking at having a generic synching interface for tryton | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:20 <cedk> Payne: this will be very complicated | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:20 <Payne> I agree | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:21 <cedk> Payne: I worked on the sync module of OpenERP and it was very complicated and not working | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:21 <Payne> I know | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:21 <Payne> but i think | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:21 <Payne> it is worth investing in | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:21 <Payne> for POS, mobile sales forces | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:21 <Payne> etc | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:22 <Payne> especially where I am in the caribbean | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:22 <Payne> where sometimes internet is spotty | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:22 <Payne> I am willing to invest in building a proper disconnected mode interface into tryton | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:23 <Payne> It's either I do that or use ofbiz | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:23 <Payne> since it has the functionality but it is java | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:23 <cedk> Payne: no problem, you can create a blueprint | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:23 <Payne> which I would prefer to avpid | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:24 <Payne> where are the tryton blueprints kept? | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:25 <cedk> Payne: on http://wiki.tryton.org/ | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:25 <Payne> ok | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:25 <Payne> I will do that | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:25 <Payne> I know there is a synchro module for openerp | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:25 <cedk> Payne: if you go with blueprint you will have review and comment from others | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:26 <Payne> cedk: but the feedback does not seem positive. Your thoughts? | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:28 <cedk> Payne: the feedback of what? | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:28 <Payne> you said you worked on the sync module | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:28 <Payne> what was your experience | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:28 <Payne> ? | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:29 <cedk> petrus: how do you make the graph? Did you use the Graph object in modules? | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:29 <cedk> Payne: very bad | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:29 <Payne> could you elaborate? | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:29 <cedk> Payne: The goals was to be able to sync two DB for 2 companies | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:29 <Payne> yes | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:30 <cedk> Payne: by keeping some objects synchronized | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:30 <Payne> server to server openerp sync | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:30 <Payne> ok | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:30 <cedk> Payne: and the result was that I needed to sync almost every thing | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:31 <cedk> Payne: because the module is generic and so there is no business logic | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:31 <Payne> right | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:31 <vengfulsquirrel> Payne: Hi, I think you should just try to make a limited point of sale interface that only writes simplified versions of new sales and customers via a batch process. Do you think you would need more features than that? | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:32 <cedk> Payne: it was two years ago but I don't think they have made any progress on it | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:32 <Payne> I thought about those suggestions | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:33 <cedk> Payne: by the way, if you want to have write access to the wiki send me an email with your google account | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:33 <Payne> the issue is that it would be nice to have an elegant bidirectional sync capability so we repurpose it for different projects | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:34 <Payne> more work upfront | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:34 <cedk> Payne: the main difficulty is the references like the many2one etc. | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:34 <Payne> but I think the community would have a more robust solution in the long term | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:34 <Payne> yes | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:35 <Payne> but it is a legitimate use case for SMBs | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:35 <cedk> Payne: there is two solutions, force to have the same ids on both side or having a translation table | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:35 <Payne> yes | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:35 <cedk> Payne: and the other problem is concurrency | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:36 <Payne> that is where a sync engine based on syncml | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:36 <Payne> seems the best option | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:36 <cedk> both are really difficult issue in relational world | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:37 <cedk> Payne: I don't see how a protocol could solve this issue | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:37 <Payne> not a protocol | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:37 <Payne> but there are implementations | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:38 <Payne> that handle conflict resolutions that are open source | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:38 <Payne> granted | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:38 <Payne> it is still complex | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:38 <vengfulsquirrel> I think a generic sync would not be possible its too complicated. | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:39 <Payne> what I am thinking is that it may not be possible to sync the entire system | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:39 <petrus> cedk: I didn't use the Graph object, just wrote a short script which uses uses pydot to generate pdf and jpeg | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:39 <Payne> but an interface in tryton may allow specific data to be synchronized | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:40 -!- digitalsatori(~tony@116.233.247.190) has joined #tryton | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:41 <cedk> Payne: sync two records is not complicated, it is the UI and behavior that are complicated | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:44 <cedk> by the way is there anybody that have an other idea of the usage of sync except for a POS? | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:45 <vengfulsquirrel> I don't see why a POS needs to sync really, or it needs very limited sync, just for new customers(which potentially might not even be necessary if a generic customer is used). | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:45 <vengfulsquirrel> New sales can just be written, without needed any sync'ing. | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:47 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: I think POS doesn't create parties nor sale orders | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:47 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: and yes, I think for a POS it is not really a sync that is needed but almost | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:48 <cedk> because POS needs to have the latest info about products | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:48 <cedk> and it needs to push sales (but it is not Tryton sale orders) | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:50 <vengfulsquirrel> Right, i meant the POS would create sales when it pushed them and it would pull products and pricing. | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:50 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: yes but for me it is not sale orders because you don't know the party and you don't need the all shipment workflow | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:51 <vengfulsquirrel> Yes, but you just autofill those because they happened implicitly. | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:51 <cedk> it must be something else that create accounting moves and stock moves without the upper level models (invoice, shipment etc.) | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:52 <vengfulsquirrel> I think the existing framework is sufficient, do you mean from some sort of Legal perspective or merely technical ? | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:52 <petrus> cedk: I have placed the module dependency files at http://petrusit.com/tryton/ | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:52 <vengfulsquirrel> I mean that's pretty much exactly what i'm doing now except I use a wizard in the tryton client. | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:52 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: I think about performance | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:52 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: you don't need any workflow when pushing from POS to the ERP | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:53 <vengfulsquirrel> Well inventory still needs to be tracked to shipments must be created. | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:53 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: and workflow is slow | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:53 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah tell me about it. | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:53 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: and I expect that POS will create a lot of lines per days | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:53 <vengfulsquirrel> From a programmer's perspective though workflow is nice, it allows me to let the worflow check conditions and move things along is larger blocks. | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:53 <petrus> cedk: I plan to write up the install procedure for Ubuntu, as I do it with - it may be put into the wiki later | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:54 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: you don't need of shipment as the customer is gone with the product | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:54 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: all you need is stock moves and the best will have to group all moves of a product in one move | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:54 <vengfulsquirrel> Yes I run shipment to Done in order to allocate inventory to Customer location. | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:55 <cedk> petrus: ok, send me an email with your google account to have write access to the wiki | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:55 <vengfulsquirrel> cedk: I see what you are saying but its more work that would just break on upgrades, whereas depending on existing tryton functionality is more stable. | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:56 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: yes it is a little more work but it is for speed, and it will be build on existing tryton functionality but at a lower level | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:56 <vengfulsquirrel> Do you think it would be possible to use the tryton clients interface somehow to create a different program that runs POS ? So that the widgets do not have to be recreated, etc. | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:57 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: I think it must be possible but it will require some improvement on widgets | ||
| 2010-02-21 23:57 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: and perhaps new widgets |
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