| chat.freenode.net #tryton log beginning Fri Jan 23 00:00:01 CET 2009 | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:08 <X0d_of_N0d> ACTION is back | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:08 <vengfulsquirrel> Hey | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:09 <vengfulsquirrel> I think the complexity of this proposal is almost at infinity, if only we could just add a few more features. | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:11 <vengfulsquirrel> X0d_of_N0d: Don't read the features or anything yet, can you look at the table at the bottom of the document though. | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:13 <vengfulsquirrel> *table's' | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:30 -!- tekknokrat(n=gthieleb@dslb-088-074-161-004.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #tryton | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:35 -!- tekknokrat(n=gthieleb@dslb-088-074-161-004.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #tryton | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:46 <X0d_of_N0d> yeah | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:48 <X0d_of_N0d> ok.... | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:48 -!- tekknokrat(n=gthieleb@dslb-088-074-161-004.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #tryton | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:48 <X0d_of_N0d> so sub-slot is the quantity? | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:49 <X0d_of_N0d> nm | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:49 <vengfulsquirrel> X0d_of_N0d: No qty is the quantity, sub-slot is a group of local substitutes. | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:50 <X0d_of_N0d> ok, what's the choose-min-no?? | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:50 <X0d_of_N0d> and what's global sub?? | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:51 <vengfulsquirrel> For a configurable bom, so you can choose 1(min) to 3(max) selections from a group of things. | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:51 -!- tekknokrat(n=gthieleb@dslb-088-074-161-004.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #tryton | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:51 <vengfulsquirrel> Global Sub means global substitutes could be used for that product if they exist. | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:51 <vengfulsquirrel> Whereas local substitutes are defined as part of the BOM. | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:51 <vengfulsquirrel> You can use both or you can turn global substitutes off to say restrict only one substitute. | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:52 <X0d_of_N0d> what does "global substitudes" mean? | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:52 <X0d_of_N0d> what is "global"? | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:52 <X0d_of_N0d> how would that work? | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:54 <vengfulsquirrel> You'd create a list of substitute products in the production tab of a product. | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:54 <vengfulsquirrel> Those would be substitutes for that product in any bom that has global subs on. | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:54 <vengfulsquirrel> You'd only use those if you couldn't assign inventory with the default product. | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:55 <X0d_of_N0d> why? | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:55 <vengfulsquirrel> Why, because the original material might be out of stock. | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:55 <X0d_of_N0d> for arbitrary substitution? | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:55 <X0d_of_N0d> ahhhh | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:55 <vengfulsquirrel> Arbitrary? | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:55 <vengfulsquirrel> Ha try to refrain from panicking. | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:56 <X0d_of_N0d> like batteries? it doesn't matter if we use brand X or brand Y. | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:56 <vengfulsquirrel> Yes | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:56 <X0d_of_N0d> so whatever is in stock, use it | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:56 <X0d_of_N0d> arbitrary substitution | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:57 <vengfulsquirrel> Except its planned, you have to say on brand X that you can sub brand Y. | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:57 <vengfulsquirrel> Whereas local substitution allows you to include maybe something a little weirder that you wouldn't want to be global. | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:58 <vengfulsquirrel> Those features kept getting confused with configurable boms last time we talked. | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:58 <X0d_of_N0d> ok, that makes sense | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:59 <X0d_of_N0d> the user interface needs to be really clear and logical because this is a bit complex | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:59 -!- tekknokrat(n=gthieleb@dslb-088-074-161-004.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #tryton | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:59 <vengfulsquirrel> I think if you aren't using configurable boms the interface will be pretty obviuos. | ||
| 2009-01-23 00:59 <vengfulsquirrel> If you are using configurable BOMs everything starts to get really complicated. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:00 <vengfulsquirrel> Do you think that min/max idea will be powerful enough for most applications? | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:00 <X0d_of_N0d> this is sort of why I was suggesting that you make all boms the same, but have a bom-type flag | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:00 <X0d_of_N0d> that way the ui would always be the same | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:00 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah but people that don't use configurable boms shouldn't have to weave around it at every step of production. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:01 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: I do think it would be powerful enough | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:01 -!- tekknokra1(n=gthieleb@dslb-088-074-156-219.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #tryton | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:01 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: they wouldn't even notice it | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:01 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: on all the different kinds of boms you'd just add parts | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:01 <vengfulsquirrel> Well the way I proposed generating boms doesn't make sense with regular boms. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:02 <X0d_of_N0d> on configurable boms you'd just add parts, but those parts would be choices | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:03 <X0d_of_N0d> hum... | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:03 <vengfulsquirrel> I was thinking we actually need three interfaces: Configurable BOM Designer, Configurable BOM Configurator, Configured Product Finder. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:03 <vengfulsquirrel> Or at least those are the three use cases in my mind. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:04 <X0d_of_N0d> what would be the difference between a configurable bom designer and configurable bom configurator? | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:04 <vengfulsquirrel> The designer would like you create the configurable bom, adding products and groups them and setting the min/max choices. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:05 <X0d_of_N0d> and the configurator lets you configure it, ok cool | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:05 <vengfulsquirrel> Then once the bom became valid you could use it to generate products and their boms by actually going and making choices. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:05 <X0d_of_N0d> so the database structure would be the same for all boms? | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:06 <vengfulsquirrel> But then when making a sale or anywhere you need to select a product you don't want to go leafing through all the configurations manually. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:06 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah sorry so this is going to sound weird but there are actually kind of 3 boms, Configurable BOMs(store the possible configurations), Configured BOMs(you made choices), Regular BOMs(Not configured) | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:07 <vengfulsquirrel> The Configured BOMs and Regular BOMs would share the same database structure. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:08 <vengfulsquirrel> The configurable boms would be more complicated and probably wouldn't share the same structure | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:10 <vengfulsquirrel> That's just what I was thinking, what do you think ? | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:10 <X0d_of_N0d> I'll have to think about that. I believe that could work, I just need to think about if that's the best way to do it. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:11 <X0d_of_N0d> what's the difference between the choice slot and sub-slot? | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:11 <X0d_of_N0d> nm, I see it | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:12 <X0d_of_N0d> hum | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:13 <X0d_of_N0d> I think the sub stuff needs to be thought about *very* carefully | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:13 <X0d_of_N0d> for example, 2 sticks of memory could be substituted but only in a set of 2 | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:13 <X0d_of_N0d> 1 of one type, and 1 of the other would be horrible | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:14 <X0d_of_N0d> I think substitution should be scrapped for milestone 1, we can look at it again later on | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:15 <X0d_of_N0d> qty and min/max qty could be used for the same thing... if we're creative about how it's done | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:16 <vengfulsquirrel> Hmm yeah not really though | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:16 <vengfulsquirrel> Or well not at all for the way I've planned the production order process. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:17 <X0d_of_N0d> yeah, really. if max-qty=min-qty then that's the same as qty | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:17 <X0d_of_N0d> just use a checkbox in the ui to toggle variable qty | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:17 <vengfulsquirrel> I guess you could keep flipping the boms until you could satisfy the inventory | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:17 <vengfulsquirrel> oh wait | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:17 <vengfulsquirrel> oh man yeah i didn't even imagine that | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:17 <vengfulsquirrel> that's more like how many from these bom lines can you choose | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:18 <vengfulsquirrel> i didn't even think about that and qty being similar | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:18 <vengfulsquirrel> I think that would be too confusing and would be abusing its purpose. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:18 <X0d_of_N0d> :) | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:19 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah but your point earlier is a problem, ie. splitting assignments between substitutes. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:19 <vengfulsquirrel> I guess we'll just never do that. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:19 <X0d_of_N0d> variable qty would be confusing? | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:19 <X0d_of_N0d> just because we don't do it now doesn't mean we won't ever do it | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:20 <X0d_of_N0d> the more official way to do it is to use bom revs | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:20 <vengfulsquirrel> No picking from 15 boms depending on how many of something you wanted to make. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:20 <X0d_of_N0d> when you run out of product X then the old bom expires and the new one using product Y goes into effect | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:21 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: picking from 15 boms?? | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:22 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah I think that max/min/= thing just totally confused me. All quantities are fixed in a regular BOM. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:22 <X0d_of_N0d> actually, if we went with the db structure I suggested we could include product substitution AND take care of the problem with splitting by adding a new bom type | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:22 <vengfulsquirrel> Subsitutions will be done between fixed quantities. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:24 <vengfulsquirrel> The values choose-min-no, choose-max-no are the minimum number of bom lines that must be selected during configuration whereas choose-max-no is the maximum number of bom lines that must be selected during configuration. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:24 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: I thought it was qty | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:25 <X0d_of_N0d> what determines variable qty? | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:25 <vengfulsquirrel> I think that's a new idea I had never thought of before, can you give me a use-case. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:26 <X0d_of_N0d> ram, you can have 1 1gb stick, or two | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:26 <X0d_of_N0d> same with the HD | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:26 <X0d_of_N0d> or monitors | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:26 <X0d_of_N0d> or you could have 4 1gb sticks | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:27 <X0d_of_N0d> whatever | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:29 <vengfulsquirrel> oh right yeah ha good thing you're here, i think you mentioned this before and we mentioned making each quantity a different configuration but other than that i totally overlooked that problem | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:32 <X0d_of_N0d> actually using your structure you could just put in the same prodcut multiple times with different qtys | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:32 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah that's what I meant, I think you had mentioned that before. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:32 <vengfulsquirrel> Do you think that would be flexible enough though? | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:32 <vengfulsquirrel> Each one of those will be a seperate product. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:33 <X0d_of_N0d> yeah, that's the way it should be | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:33 <vengfulsquirrel> So each different qty of memory is a different product. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:34 <vengfulsquirrel> Okay great yeah so there is not variable quantity beyond making a line for each qty possible. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:34 <X0d_of_N0d> yeah | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:34 <X0d_of_N0d> I think that's flexable enough for right now | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:35 <X0d_of_N0d> I think substition should be handled through a different interface | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:36 <X0d_of_N0d> I'd say we could have a substition bom that just has a list of parts that are all the same | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:36 <vengfulsquirrel> Well I think its a BOM topic because the bom needs to be approved and if engineering says nothing is substitutable.. then nothing should be substutuable. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:36 <X0d_of_N0d> and when you want to allow substition you use that, when you don't use use the exact product | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:36 <X0d_of_N0d> perhaps? | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:37 <X0d_of_N0d> right, so you create a new item that's metaitem for all the subsitutable items | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:37 <X0d_of_N0d> when you want to subsitute the bom contains the metaitem, where you don't the bom contains the specific part number | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:38 <X0d_of_N0d> you could have a "metaproduct" bom | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:39 <vengfulsquirrel> Hmm yeah I was thinking it will be easier to put that in the base bom since its just going to be a simple list of substitutes. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:39 <vengfulsquirrel> I think its not going to be too complex no matter where it is | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:39 <vengfulsquirrel> the configuration stuff is still the hard part | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:39 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: right | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:39 <vengfulsquirrel> well actually there is a caveat to all this | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:39 <vengfulsquirrel> multiple outputs | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:39 <X0d_of_N0d> well, if the configuration was broken up into smaller parts it could be stored in the same place | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:39 <vengfulsquirrel> that part I havn't quite figured out | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:40 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: multiple outputs is increidbly difficult | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:40 <X0d_of_N0d> I haven't really figured it out yet.... | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:40 <vengfulsquirrel> Well it all works except these problems: | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:41 <vengfulsquirrel> 1. How do we add/remove outputs based on selected configuration, 2. How de we add/remove outputs based on substitutes | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:41 <vengfulsquirrel> I think with a regular bom with no config. or sub. the multiple outputs will work fine. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:41 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: right, your output would usually be determined based on your product... | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:44 <X0d_of_N0d> products could have a list of byproducts under production | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:44 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah well there was talk about a larger seperation between a product and its many boms. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:44 <X0d_of_N0d> if you create a work order for product, you'd also be producting all of the items in "byproduct" | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:45 <vengfulsquirrel> I think the outputs should be with the BOM and not with the product. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:45 <X0d_of_N0d> a product can only have one bom | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:45 <X0d_of_N0d> a single bom can be for many products | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:45 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah okay so that was disputed | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:45 <X0d_of_N0d> let me review that | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:46 <vengfulsquirrel> the wood cutting example given in that email is one exmaple | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:46 <vengfulsquirrel> The idea was that you would select the product's bom if different from the default at the start of the production order cycle. | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:46 <X0d_of_N0d> the board making two boards? | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:46 <vengfulsquirrel> Yes | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:47 <X0d_of_N0d> the single bom would produce both boards, two products one bom | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:48 <vengfulsquirrel> Except you can make that board from multiple other boards | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:48 <vengfulsquirrel> Like cut a 8 into 2/6 or a 12 into 2/10 | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:48 <vengfulsquirrel> that's a crappy example but that's the point | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:48 <X0d_of_N0d> hum | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:48 <vengfulsquirrel> where you have multiple output products and multiple boms | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:48 <X0d_of_N0d> which email was that? | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:49 <X0d_of_N0d> yeah | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:49 <vengfulsquirrel> well your boss mentioned it as a breeder bom and cedk and I talked about it in chat, hold on let me find it | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:49 <X0d_of_N0d> oh yeah, ok | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:50 <vengfulsquirrel> http://www.tryton.org/~irclog/2009-01-20.log.html | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:51 <vengfulsquirrel> Is the css/formatting all f'ed up on your browser too ? | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:52 <X0d_of_N0d> not really, looks ok to me | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:52 <X0d_of_N0d> you're using ff? | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:52 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:53 <X0d_of_N0d> did you just upgrade? | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:53 <vengfulsquirrel> no the opposite i'm using 2.0.17 i think | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:53 <vengfulsquirrel> i'm also riding a dinosaur and wielding a club | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:54 <X0d_of_N0d> 3.0.5 | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:54 <X0d_of_N0d> lol | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:54 <X0d_of_N0d> so the problem with multiple boms to a product is that products are the key | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:55 <X0d_of_N0d> products need to return one bom so manufacturing knows how to build the product | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:55 <vengfulsquirrel> yeah well there will be a sequence applied to the possible boms | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:55 <X0d_of_N0d> if the product returns multiple boms then how do you determine which bom is the correct one? | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:55 <vengfulsquirrel> and the first one will be default | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:55 <vengfulsquirrel> manufacturing can select a different one at the start of production if for some reason its necessary | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:57 <X0d_of_N0d> it's generally the case that manufacturing needs to be told pretty explicitly exactly what to do | ||
| 2009-01-23 01:58 <X0d_of_N0d> I dunno...that might work | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:00 <X0d_of_N0d> I guess the different boms could be chosen based on avaliable materials... | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:01 <X0d_of_N0d> and if the materials are different from the default it would complain | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:01 <vengfulsquirrel> yeah i had thought of it differently | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:02 <vengfulsquirrel> and this is still fresh out of my brain | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:02 <vengfulsquirrel> but check out this diagram | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:02 <vengfulsquirrel> http://laspilitas.com/s/images/production-order-states.png | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:07 <X0d_of_N0d> substitute materials and allocate resources should take place at the same time | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:09 <vengfulsquirrel> except it can't try to allocate the materials if it doesn't know what to allocate | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:09 <vengfulsquirrel> Sorry green is the User and Blue is the system | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:09 <vengfulsquirrel> Forgot to label those | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:09 <vengfulsquirrel> The idea is you would keep trying to assign with different subsitutes until it worked or you forced it | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:10 <vengfulsquirrel> Similar to assign's to a customer packing | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:10 <X0d_of_N0d> but we can't substitute materials then allocate because we might try to allocate materials we don't have, and that's the point of substitution | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:10 <vengfulsquirrel> yeah well it won't work, that's what i'm saying | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:11 <vengfulsquirrel> you'd try to allocate and it would say it can't because you don't have enough X | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:11 <vengfulsquirrel> so then you'd try to substitute X with Y | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:11 <vengfulsquirrel> and you'd run the allocation again | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:12 <X0d_of_N0d> it should just check what you do have and allocate that | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:12 <vengfulsquirrel> if you don't have the materials but you think you do anyways you can force the allocation, but that would be frowned upon just like forcing the assignment of resources to an sale when you don't have the resources | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:12 <vengfulsquirrel> *resources=products | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:15 <X0d_of_N0d> I'm not saying you should allocate, then substitute. I'm saying they should both be done in the same step | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:15 <X0d_of_N0d> like... | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:15 <X0d_of_N0d> 1) run through the substition list until you find enough in inventory | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:15 <X0d_of_N0d> 2) allocate what you have enough of | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:16 <vengfulsquirrel> you mean automatically by the system? | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:16 <vengfulsquirrel> I guess that should be an option | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:16 <X0d_of_N0d> and that stuff needs to be virtually allocated during "waiting"... | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:17 <X0d_of_N0d> I don't see how it makes sense to make a person do what a computer should | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:17 <X0d_of_N0d> it should just inform you "hey, there isn't enough of this so I used that" | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:17 <vengfulsquirrel> Well some people might not want to substitute and would rather wait | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:18 <X0d_of_N0d> also everyhting needs to be virtually allocated during the waiting stage | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:18 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah I gotta re-read up on the virtual allocation | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:18 <X0d_of_N0d> otherwise you could sched one thing and it would be waiting, then sched another thing for the same time that would use the same resources | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:18 <vengfulsquirrel> but that means automatically substituting | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:18 <X0d_of_N0d> it's *vital* | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:19 <vengfulsquirrel> well kind of | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:19 <vengfulsquirrel> but maybe you don't want unsatisfied production orders to be plugging up your inventory when other orders can be fulfilled | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:19 <X0d_of_N0d> it seems like that would be a behavior you'd want to customize | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:19 <vengfulsquirrel> i think maybe a checkbox would be good | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:19 <vengfulsquirrel> Automatically Substitute | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:20 <X0d_of_N0d> yeah | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:20 <vengfulsquirrel> but the virtual allocation probably does need to be worked out | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:20 <X0d_of_N0d> that should be per "subsitution bom" or whatever | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:20 <vengfulsquirrel> i was thinking assigned meant virtually allocated though | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:20 <X0d_of_N0d> it seems to me that would be the right place | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:21 <vengfulsquirrel> so you could go from draft to waiting | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:21 <vengfulsquirrel> then try to assign everything automatically | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:21 <vengfulsquirrel> and that would take you to assigned if successful | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:21 <vengfulsquirrel> otherwise you'd just be stuck in waiting with nothing assigned | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:21 <vengfulsquirrel> if you wanted to hold some of the materials you had | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:21 <vengfulsquirrel> you'd have to force it | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:22 <X0d_of_N0d> ok, so when you create the bom it becomes a draft... | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:22 <X0d_of_N0d> then what makes it "waiting" | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:22 <vengfulsquirrel> you finalize your bom selection | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:22 <X0d_of_N0d> errmm s/bom/po/ | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:22 <vengfulsquirrel> we can't have the bom selection editable if we are cranking out moves against it | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:22 <X0d_of_N0d> ok | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:22 <vengfulsquirrel> so i tihnk for the most part | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:22 <vengfulsquirrel> waiting will be less than 30 seconds of waiting | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:23 <vengfulsquirrel> like you will just click through it | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:23 <vengfulsquirrel> it really only is needed if you aren't automatically using subs | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:23 <vengfulsquirrel> or allocation fails | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:23 <X0d_of_N0d> well then it's just part of draft | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:23 <vengfulsquirrel> except you can change the bom in the draft state | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:24 <X0d_of_N0d> ahh | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:24 <vengfulsquirrel> ie. choose a different bom | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:24 <vengfulsquirrel> not modify the actual bom | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:24 <vengfulsquirrel> if that makes sense | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:25 <X0d_of_N0d> once the bom is created you can't modify it | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:25 <X0d_of_N0d> you have to rev it | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:26 <vengfulsquirrel> yeah | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:26 <vengfulsquirrel> and once you go from draft to waiting you are fixed on a bom and a revision of that bom | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:27 <X0d_of_N0d> but shouldn't you be fixed on a bom and revision when you submit the draft? | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:27 <X0d_of_N0d> hum... | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:27 <X0d_of_N0d> I guess not | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:28 <vengfulsquirrel> yeah because supposedly people will want to select a different bom in the draft state | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:28 <X0d_of_N0d> right | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:28 <X0d_of_N0d> ok, so what is the difference between waiting and assigned? | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:29 <X0d_of_N0d> you're in draft, you select the bom and rev.... | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:29 <vengfulsquirrel> Maybe waiting isn't the best word | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:30 <vengfulsquirrel> but you go to waiting, and the exploded bom is there and you can either | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:30 <vengfulsquirrel> 1. check the automatic substitute box and click Assign | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:30 <vengfulsquirrel> or 2. uncheck the automatic substute box and go through the exploded bom and manually select substitutes and then click Assign | ||
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| 2009-01-23 02:31 <vengfulsquirrel> if 1 or 2 fail you are stuck in Waiting | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:31 <X0d_of_N0d> it seems like that's just a step in the process to assigning it | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:31 <X0d_of_N0d> not actually a state in and of itself | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:32 <X0d_of_N0d> it seems like it should just fall back to draft if you can't assign it | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:36 <X0d_of_N0d> I don't think the bom and rev field should actually be locked until you can actually allocate materials...that's all I'm saying | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:42 <vengfulsquirrel> hey sorry i got a phone call | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:42 <X0d_of_N0d> ok | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:42 <X0d_of_N0d> I gotta head out in a bit, I just wanted to make a few notes.... | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:42 <X0d_of_N0d> running -> stopped | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:43 <X0d_of_N0d> that would change the state of the workcenter... for the first milestone it doesn't do anything | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:43 <X0d_of_N0d> just a placeholder | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:43 <X0d_of_N0d> stopped -> unfinished | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:43 <X0d_of_N0d> I think that should actually be stopped -> canceled | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:43 <X0d_of_N0d> basically the same | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:43 <vengfulsquirrel> okay yeah I have except all the deallocation | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:44 <X0d_of_N0d> moves shouldn't actually be done, moves should be drafted and then people manually do moves | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:44 <vengfulsquirrel> yeah but they need to be checked if they are done | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:44 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: right, I meant it should be the same as what you wrote | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:44 <vengfulsquirrel> like people need to know that stuff is finished and needs to be restocked | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:45 <vengfulsquirrel> and then they do it and then change the state to Done | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:46 <X0d_of_N0d> oh yeah, ok... the blue under assigned is correct but the green, I think, should say "create draft move" | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:46 <vengfulsquirrel> I guess I was trying to parallel the finished logic with the unfinished logic since all the same stuff needs to happen pretty much except there could be potentially a ton more outputs for unfinished orders. | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:46 <X0d_of_N0d> to be more clear | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:47 <vengfulsquirrel> which green? | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:47 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: yeah, that does make sense | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:47 <X0d_of_N0d> the green text next to assigned says "do moves to input" but the blue under says "check all moves to input are done" | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:48 <X0d_of_N0d> so I think the green text should say "create draft move to input" | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:48 <X0d_of_N0d> just to make it more clear | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:48 <vengfulsquirrel> The blue describes the arrow of what the system does between the two states, the green describes what can be done when you are in a state. | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:49 <vengfulsquirrel> I mean check as in if they aren't done you can't start running the production. | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:49 <vengfulsquirrel> Maybe that's a little heavy handed. | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:50 <X0d_of_N0d> I think that the way you did everything is pretty clear | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:50 <X0d_of_N0d> I'm easily able to follow what blue and green means | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:51 <X0d_of_N0d> hum | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:51 <X0d_of_N0d> well I need to head out, you going to be around tomorrow? | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:51 <vengfulsquirrel> Yes | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:52 <vengfulsquirrel> We can finish ironing everything out then, maybe I'll have some suggestions for handling multiple outputs and configurable boms by then. | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:52 <X0d_of_N0d> ok, it looks pretty good over all... yeah, we'll finish later | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:52 <X0d_of_N0d> cool | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:52 <X0d_of_N0d> see you then | ||
| 2009-01-23 02:53 <vengfulsquirrel> adios | ||
| 2009-01-23 04:20 <CIA-51> tryton: vengfulsquirrel * r427 /wiki/TrytonMRPIntegration.wiki: Added state transition diagram for production orders. Text still needs to updated to reflect the newest design decisions. | ||
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| 2009-01-23 09:08 <vengfulsquirrel> When something like an on_change function returns values what uses those? | ||
| 2009-01-23 09:09 <saxa> grep for the variable ? | ||
| 2009-01-23 09:12 <Timitos> vengfulsquirrel: with an on_change function you can change the values of some other fields for example. like when you change field product in invoice line then the field unit is filled by the function on_change_product | ||
| 2009-01-23 09:13 <Timitos> vengfulsquirrel: by the way. your plan for MRP looks good | ||
| 2009-01-23 09:14 <vengfulsquirrel> Timitos: Yeah I'm not working on that now, but yeah the text needs a lot of updating and there are a lot of loose ends, did you look at the state diagram? | ||
| 2009-01-23 09:14 <vengfulsquirrel> Hmm, okay yeah I think I kind of understand why its called but it returns a dictionary of values... to who are those returned ? | ||
| 2009-01-23 09:15 <vengfulsquirrel> I greped for the call and I havne't seen those calls anywhere so I'm assuming its all done at run time using strings. | ||
| 2009-01-23 09:16 <vengfulsquirrel> Timitos: http://laspilitas.com/s/images/production-order-states.png Do you work with anyone in manufacturing ? | ||
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| 2009-01-23 09:18 <Timitos> vengfulsquirrel: sorry. i don´t know to who those values are returned. sorry. for me in the moment it is enough that is works ;-) | ||
| 2009-01-23 09:18 <Timitos> vengfulsquirrel: no in the moment i do not work with anyone in manufacturing. i also need to update my knowledge for manufacturing. | ||
| 2009-01-23 09:19 <Timitos> but what i read in the wiki sounds good for me. | ||
| 2009-01-23 09:20 <Timitos> you should consider the possibility to implement batch tracing for later | ||
| 2009-01-23 09:24 <vengfulsquirrel> Timitos: Thanks. With regard to the batch tracking, yeah that is something I myself need to read up on, I think the basic stock system would need an extension because that kind of granularity does not exist. It is definitely important for certain industries though. | ||
| 2009-01-23 09:24 <Timitos> vengfulsquirrel: this is the changeset in which cedk added the on_change_with functionality. perhaps this can help you to find some more informationen about on_change too http://hg.tryton.org/hgwebdir.cgi/trytond/rev/56493f850cd9 | ||
| 2009-01-23 09:25 <Timitos> yes. batch tracing is very important for cosmetics and food industry | ||
| 2009-01-23 09:26 <Timitos> and this is how on_change_with is handled by the client http://hg.tryton.org/hgwebdir.cgi/tryton/rev/885d4a90fcea | ||
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| 2009-01-23 10:06 <vengfulsquirrel> Timitos: Thanks, okay I think I have a better handle on it now, I also didn't notice there is a bit in the docs about it. | ||
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| 2009-01-23 11:09 <Gedd> cedk, bechamel: vous avez testé la dernière version? ca vous convient? | ||
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| 2009-01-23 11:21 <cedk> Gedd: c'est bertrand qui s'occupait du rapport, mais je pense que c'était bon pour lui | ||
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| 2009-01-23 18:48 <carlos> Hi | ||
| 2009-01-23 18:54 <carlos> Timitos: hi, around ? | ||
| 2009-01-23 19:13 -!- cedk(n=ced@gentoo/developer/cedk) has joined #tryton | ||
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| 2009-01-23 19:24 <carlos> cedk: hi | ||
| 2009-01-23 19:24 <carlos> cedk: Is there a way to update a chart of accounts already created in Tryton? | ||
| 2009-01-23 19:24 <carlos> say that I find a bug in the chart of accounts xml file and I want to 'fix' the one already created with the old version | ||
| 2009-01-23 19:25 <carlos> I fix the xml and update the module, what else would I need to do? | ||
| 2009-01-23 19:26 <cedk> carlos: not for now | ||
| 2009-01-23 19:27 <carlos> so I would need to do manual sql surgery, right? | ||
| 2009-01-23 19:30 <carlos> ok, next question. Tryton has 'income statement' and 'Balance sheet', but I have another report which consist in an income statement + extra information | ||
| 2009-01-23 19:30 <carlos> which name is translated as 'Changes in net assets' | ||
| 2009-01-23 19:31 <carlos> and I don't know how to do it, just create it as the income statement and Balance sheet, but without the "<field name='balance_sheet' eval='True'/>" or <field name='income_statement' eval='True'/> | ||
| 2009-01-23 19:31 <carlos> ? | ||
| 2009-01-23 19:45 <cedk> carlos: perhaps, I don't know | ||
| 2009-01-23 19:56 <carlos> cedk: who may know it? | ||
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| 2009-01-23 20:16 <cedk> carlos: you must give more explaination about this report | ||
| 2009-01-23 20:19 <carlos> from what I know, it looks like an extension of the income statement but not all companies need that part, thus, the documentation has it as a third report | ||
| 2009-01-23 20:19 <cedk> carlos: you can make like other report and add a new field for it | ||
| 2009-01-23 20:20 <carlos> just like balance_sheet and income_statement? | ||
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| 2009-01-23 20:20 <cedk> carlos: yes | ||
| 2009-01-23 20:21 <carlos> ok, I will take note of that and try to get more information from such report to be 100% sure that's the right way to do it. | ||
| 2009-01-23 20:21 <carlos> cedk: thanks | ||
| 2009-01-23 20:58 <Timitos> carlos: hi. did you want to ask me what you asked cedk later? or do you want to ask me something other? | ||
| 2009-01-23 20:58 <carlos> Timitos: what I asked to cedk | ||
| 2009-01-23 20:58 <Timitos> ok. | ||
| 2009-01-23 20:58 <carlos> Timitos: I already finished adding all accounts | ||
| 2009-01-23 20:59 <carlos> however, something is broken when I try to use that chart of accounts, so I'm debugging it right now (taxes are missing) | ||
| 2009-01-23 20:59 <Timitos> carlos: great. your summary for project looks good. i am collecting some thoughts about that but i have many things to do in the moment | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:00 <Timitos> carlos: i took a while for me to get my chart running too. | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:01 <carlos> Timitos: talking about that... Do you know Jira? | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:01 <Timitos> carlos: no | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:01 <carlos> Timitos: well, the problem seems like a missing field in one of the accounts, but Tryton doesn't tell me which one | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:02 <carlos> so I hope to get it working this weekend :-P I want to open 2009 with Tryton | ||
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| 2009-01-23 21:02 <Timitos> carlos: i will take a short look on your chart | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:02 <carlos> Timitos: Jira is something like bugzilla and roundup | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:03 <carlos> Timitos: the guys in the university want to integrate Jira (or something like it) in the Project management development | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:03 <carlos> and is the first time I know about Jira, so I was just checking whether you had some more information about it :-) | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:03 <Timitos> carlos: :-) sorry. no | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:04 <carlos> Timitos: cool, latest version of my chart of accounts is already on my website. Thanks | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:04 <carlos> Timitos: ok, no problem | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:11 <carlos> Timitos: the error I'm getting is 'The field "Type" on "Account" is required.' | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:11 <Timitos> carlos: i get this too. | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:12 <carlos> and the problem is with the account id pgc_1341 | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:12 <Timitos> i know :-) | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:12 <carlos> which is the first one using the 'tlost' type | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:12 <Timitos> but i don´t understand | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:12 <carlos> how did you get it? | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:12 <Timitos> i put a print statement in the copy function of account.py | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:12 <carlos> it took me a while to get such information with pdb... so maybe Tryton is easier to debug than I'm aware of :-P | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:12 <carlos> ok | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:12 <carlos> just that you have better knowledge of the system | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:13 <carlos> :-D | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:13 <Timitos> carlos: there is maybe a bug. but i am not sure yet | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:14 <carlos> Timitos: I added such type to 'mark' the accounts that for some reason, are not part of the income_statement nor the balance_sheet | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:14 <carlos> s/'mark'/tag/ | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:15 <carlos> so I know the ones I need to check with my tax advisor next week | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:15 <Timitos> carlos: if they are not part of income statement or balance sheet i would leave them out. ok or you check this. | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:16 <carlos> leave them out == without type or just remove them from the chart of accounts? | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:19 <Timitos> carlos: remove them from the chart of accounts | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:20 <carlos> ok, I'm going to comment them out | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:20 <Timitos> carlos: this is better. so the danger for doing mistakes with these accounts is smaller | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:20 <carlos> well, those accounts should be part of any of those reports | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:20 <carlos> but seems like the official documentation is not 100% complete | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:22 <Timitos> carlos: you need to search why the account has the value 'False' for type. this is the value when copying the templates to an chart. but in the xml it has type 'tlost'. something happens there when the templates are read out i think. but i am not sure. your xml seems to be correct. it happens later. | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:23 <carlos> so that error seems to be a bug in Tryton? | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:24 <carlos> something that should be detected when the xml is read | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:24 <Timitos> carlos: yes it seems to be a bug in Tryton. your xml is read correctly into account.account.template. the error happens when the templates are copied to account.account | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:25 <Timitos> carlos: but i need to leave now. my honey needs my attention ;-) | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:25 <carlos> Actually, I got the same error when I activated the module in a fresh tryton db | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:25 <carlos> Timitos: enjoy! | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:25 <carlos> Timitos: thanks for your input | ||
| 2009-01-23 21:26 <Timitos> carlos: thx. you are welcome | ||
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| 2009-01-23 22:07 <X0d_of_N0d`> how does the separator tag work? | ||
| 2009-01-23 22:08 <X0d_of_N0d`> i should just be able to add <separator string="asdf" name="qwerty"/> right? | ||
| 2009-01-23 22:10 <cedk> X0d_of_N0d`: in the dev branch, you must also add an id | ||
| 2009-01-23 22:11 <cedk> X0d_of_N0d`: or a name | ||
| 2009-01-23 22:11 <X0d_of_N0d`> ok, thanks | ||
| 2009-01-23 22:11 <cedk> X0d_of_N0d`: but put a name and a string is not usefull | ||
| 2009-01-23 22:12 <cedk> X0d_of_N0d: because it will display the string from the field defined in name | ||
| 2009-01-23 22:12 <X0d_of_N0d> I was kind of under the understanding that a separator would be like an hr | ||
| 2009-01-23 22:12 <X0d_of_N0d> oh | ||
| 2009-01-23 22:12 <X0d_of_N0d> <hpaned>=<hr> ?? | ||
| 2009-01-23 22:14 <cedk> X0d_of_N0d: yes it is like a hr | ||
| 2009-01-23 22:14 <X0d_of_N0d> cedk: cool, thanks for all the help | ||
| 2009-01-23 22:15 <X0d_of_N0d> ACTION heads off to lunch | ||
| 2009-01-23 22:17 -!- Frank159_(n=chatzill@pD9E63563.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #tryton | ||
| 2009-01-23 22:32 -!- cristi_an(n=cristi@89.120.211.206) has joined #tryton | ||
| 2009-01-23 23:52 <CIA-8> tryton: C?dric Krier <ced@b2ck.com> default * 1480:a85a277af20a trytond/trytond/osv/orm.py: Don't order by selection translated if order_field is not None | ||
| 2009-01-23 23:52 <CIA-8> tryton: C?dric Krier <ced@b2ck.com> default * 1481:1e3998fb9018 trytond/trytond/res/request.py: Order request by priority must be on internal value |
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